Disputatio:Planeta pulsaris
Planeta pulsaris / Planetae pulsarium
[fontem recensere]In translating this page I wondered what the best solution could be for an English title with an attributive noun (en:Pulsar planet) – which can therefore afford to be singular. So I checked the Italian Wikipedia, and to reach the same genericity of English attributive nouns (absent in Italian) they use the plural (it:Pianeti delle pulsar). This is the reason that makes me believe that Planetae pulsarium should be preferred to Planeta pulsaris. --Grufo (disputatio) 16:37, 23 Martii 2023 (UTC)
- In Latin we generally can't attach an attributive noun in the way that English does, as you know. I think the genitive works fine in this case, as you thought too! But I see that Iacobus has now moved to the singular in accord with our usual rule, and I'd say he was right. Planet of a pulsar seems to me as clear in its meaning as planets of pulsars. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:55, 23 Martii 2023 (UTC)
- LOL. I was taking pulsaris as an adjective, giving us "pulsarian planet" (from an assumed pulsaris, -e), but it works—and perhaps better!—as a genitive singular noun too, though attributive nouns in English can indeed conceptually be in the possessive plural; consider baseball, 'a game of bases', and flower garden, 'a garden of flowers'—not basesball and flowers garden. (However, even native speakers can misunderstand this point, and for the correct trade union and job data, you'll sometimes see trades union and jobs data.) The mos vicipaedianus is to make lemmata singular except for necessarily plural things, such as taxonomic levels above that of genus, so the lemma here has to be singular. Another plan would be to make the lemma Planeta tantum, with the title being Planeta (pulsar), to be listed in a discretiva page and the definition changed to accommodate it. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:43, 23 Martii 2023 (UTC)
- I agree with what you say about English attributive nouns – I actually think that they implicitly express a plural in most cases (e.g. "table spoon" is a spoon for tables). However in translating into Latin things can of course change. I just checked the other Romance languages and they all use the singular "Planet of pulsar" (so Italian here is the exception):
- I think that in Latin Planetae pulsarium and Planeta pulsaris work equally well linguistically speaking. Only by instinct I prefer the plural, and because pulsar planets collectively constitute a category of planets that was thought should not exist.
- P.S. I believe the "Convertimus" template is not needed in this page, we did not really invent any new word here. --Grufo (disputatio) 18:07, 23 Martii 2023 (UTC)
- It's borderline, isn't it? We are describing a category, not inventing a term. Considering your argument, and the fact that the article consists largely of a list, I think the issue between singular and plural is borderline too. So I feel neutral about planets of pulsars and I would be swayed by the editor of the article. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:45, 23 Martii 2023 (UTC)
- LOL. I was taking pulsaris as an adjective, giving us "pulsarian planet" (from an assumed pulsaris, -e), but it works—and perhaps better!—as a genitive singular noun too, though attributive nouns in English can indeed conceptually be in the possessive plural; consider baseball, 'a game of bases', and flower garden, 'a garden of flowers'—not basesball and flowers garden. (However, even native speakers can misunderstand this point, and for the correct trade union and job data, you'll sometimes see trades union and jobs data.) The mos vicipaedianus is to make lemmata singular except for necessarily plural things, such as taxonomic levels above that of genus, so the lemma here has to be singular. Another plan would be to make the lemma Planeta tantum, with the title being Planeta (pulsar), to be listed in a discretiva page and the definition changed to accommodate it. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:43, 23 Martii 2023 (UTC)