Disputatio:Somersetensis comitatus

How do we say cider? I think there should be a mention on cider in Somerset and Asturias--80.58.235.32 10:46, 26 Iunii 2007 (UTC) I mean...--Xaverius 10:47, 26 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

And even in Normandy, maybe, if we're being generous! The Latin word that cider comes from is "sicera". That didn't originally mean cider, or anything very definite; it was a loanword needed for Bible translations, and it only came to mean cider in medieval times. But it's a handy word, and if I had started a cider article before now, I would have tried it. I wonder what Iustinus thinks. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:01, 26 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Cider falls under the category of vinum (cf. Palladius' reference to vinum piri), and in fact I mentioned it briefly at Vinum#Vinum ex Aliis Fructibus. In the same etymological family as "cider' is the much more obscure word "ciser," which apparently referrs to honeyed cider. According to the OED this word is attested in Medieval Latin in the intermediate forms cisera, cisara. If we want to write an article on cider, I would recommend vinum pomaceum (or the like) as our lemma.

In other news, unless I am much mistaken, the paper that has been tormenting continuously since saturday night... no wait, it's been bothering me since January... no wait, it's been bothering me since winter of '04--I'lll come in again. In other news, it looks like the thing that has been keeping me away from wikipedia for the last several months may be done! So if this article is to be written, I will gladly help. --Iustinus 23:32, 26 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

"Vinum fit et e siliqua Syriaca et e piris malorumque omnibus generibus — sed e Punicis rhoiten vocant — et e cornis, mespilis, sorvis, moris siccis, nucleis pinis. hi musto madidi exprimuntur, superiora per se mitia.," Pliny, NH 14.19.103. And interesting that he mentions Vinum ... e siliqua Syriaca by the way, because I had recently been wondering if that was the sense of Ancient Egyptian ḥnqt nḏm. --Iustinus 02:44, 27 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Name

I am moving back from "Somercestria", which seems completely wrong to me: it ought to correspond to an English "Somerchester", not "Somerset". "Somercestria" gets no Google hits at all, while "Somersetensis" has 485. There may yet be a better form: any other opinions? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:16, 26 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

I notice the form Sumesetensis provincia: Galfridus Monemutensis, Historia regum Britanniae 9.3. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:19, 5 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Etymology

I restored the Anglo-Saxon orthography in the paragraph on etymology. It's true that we generally write without special characters, but when we're quoting precise words in foreign or ancient languages it may be best to be as accurate as possible, even including special characters. Do others agree or disagree? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:47, 30 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

As I see it, the injunction against special characters applies only to true Latin words, and to most article titles. --Iustinus 05:58, 28 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Nomen

What's the evidence for Comitatus Somersetensis instead of Somersetensis Comitatus? Evidence in favor of the latter is that it gets seventy-six hits at Google, but the former gets only two. Similarly, Eboracensis Comitatus gets one hundred ninety-nine hits, but Comitatus Eboracensis gets only two; Lancastriensis Comitatus gets thirty-three, but Comitatus Lancastriensis gets only three. Of course many will say that Googlehits aren't dispositive. IacobusAmor 13:22, 10 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

Somerset Somersetensis Comitatus
Insigne Somersetensis Comitatus	Situs Somersetensis Comitatus in Anglia
Sententia: Sumorsaete Ealle
Res geographicae
Caput	Tauntonia
Magnitudo Terrestris -Ordo Magnitudinis -Magnitudo	7 4 171 km²
Incolae (2005) -Ordo -Numerus Incolarum -Densitas Incolarum	22 884 400 212/km²

Retraho pro tempore

Capsam hic moveo pro tempore quia paginas de comitatibus Anglicis retracto; inter comitatus geographicos, sollemnes et administrativos distinguo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 22:21, 9 Ianuarii 2011 (UTC)