Usor:Jondel/sixthmostspoken
Most spoken
[recensere | fontem recensere]Could I ask your favor? Is this the correct way to say sixth most spoken in the US: In Uniti Status Americae sextus maximus parlantus est. Gratias ago.--Jondel 06:16, 16 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, this will need to be rephrased somehow. There is no such verb as *parlare in Latin, the Romance word being derived from vulgar Latin parabolare (which is not exactly fit for encyclopedic style in any case). The standard classical verb for "to speak" is loqui, which is deponant, and there for has no passive form! There's also the issue of whether or not sextus maximus (for instance) can mean "sixth greatest." As I don't have time to check on that, let's just assume it can. In that case here are my suggestions:
- "X lingua sexta est Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, secundum numerum eorum que ea loquuntur"
- "In numero eorum qui ea loquuntur, X tenet locum sextum"
- "X sexta maxime in usu est."
- Or something like that. --Iustinus 18:06, 16 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Latina est lingua sexta latissime locuta. ? Doops 20:59, 16 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Latissime is good, but because loqui is deponent, it has no semantically passive forms. In other words, Latina est locuta does not mean "Latin is spoken" but "A Latin woman has spoken." A further issue is that in the active you don't say Latinam loquor but latine loquor, so even if there were a passive form, "latin" couldn't be its subject. --Iustinus 23:52, 16 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Me in angulum mittam gementem incontinenter. Stultius loqui vix possem. O tempora o mores. Doops 01:34, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- It's a REALLY common mistake ;) Hmm... instead of "is spoken" we could say adhibetur "is used." That is passive, and can take a nominative, buuuuut... I'm stilly iffy on "sexta latissime"... I've been looking into the question of how to say this, and I'll let you know if I come up with something good.
- P.S. Another possibility: "Lingua X locum sextum tenet" --Iustinus 01:52, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Me in angulum mittam gementem incontinenter. Stultius loqui vix possem. O tempora o mores. Doops 01:34, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Latissime is good, but because loqui is deponent, it has no semantically passive forms. In other words, Latina est locuta does not mean "Latin is spoken" but "A Latin woman has spoken." A further issue is that in the active you don't say Latinam loquor but latine loquor, so even if there were a passive form, "latin" couldn't be its subject. --Iustinus 23:52, 16 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Latina est lingua sexta latissime locuta. ? Doops 20:59, 16 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
Here are some loci classici that could be relevant:
- potentiâ secundus a rege -Hirt. B. Alex. 66 -> Usu sexta ab Anglica??
- Nonne sexta latione [si verbum est] usus ab Anglica ? But the "ab" seems clunkly. Doops 05:00, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- latio means "bringing, carying" not "broadness." Broadness is latitudo, but I don't think we can use it to mean what we want it to mean. Some other possibilities: diffusione (Cicero speaks of an error longe lateque diffusus), populi favore, frequentia. As for the ab, that doesn't seem clunky to me in itself, but the fact that we can't really seem to express "sixth most spoken language" without mentioning what the first one is. Note that I said usu not usus: that makes a big difference. --Iustinus 16:43, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Nonne sexta latione [si verbum est] usus ab Anglica ? But the "ab" seems clunkly. Doops 05:00, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- right; my latione was paralell to your usu. Substituting the proper word, I'd get sexta diffusione usus ab Anglica. Doops 20:08, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- maxime vellem...secundo autem loco... -Cic. Phil. 8.10.31 -> Anglice latissime adhibetur, X autem est sexto loco?? (of course maxime/secundo loco means something else in Cicero, but this might still work)
- Am I misreading? Surely the maxime is irrelevant altogether? Doops 05:00, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- Likewise me maxime consolatur spes....facile secundo loco me consolatur recordatio... Cic. Fam. 1.6.1
- cotes Creticae diu maximam laudem habuere, secundam Laconicae Plin. NH 36.22.47 §164 -> Lingua Anglica primum tenet locum, sextum X
- This is transparently correct grammatically. But we have to answer "first/sixth with respect to what?" e.g. primum latione usus locum or something Doops 05:00, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that's 100% necessary, but I think if it is specified, the most logical way to do so is secundum numerum eorum que ea loquuntur or quod attinet ad numerum... I wonder if we could even do numero.
- nulli Campanorum secundus vinctus ad mortem rapior Liv. 23.10.7 -> Lingua X sexta est Anglicae (though in English we can say "second to none" but not "sixth to English" so this might not work in Latin either)
- just out of curiosity, why genitive? As a preposition, "secundum" takes accusative, almost as if it were just plain sequentem. Doops 05:00, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- It's not a genitive, it's a dative. The originally quote quite literally means "Second to none."
- again, stultus sum. nullus, nullius, nulli, etc. Doops 20:08, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
- It's not a genitive, it's a dative. The originally quote quite literally means "Second to none."
Another possibility might be a derivative adjective like sextanus or sextarius but I'm a little unsure of that. --Iustinus 02:16, 17 Decembris 2005 (UTC)